Instructions Came From Trump, Schiff Says: Impeachment Update
The first public hearing in the formal impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump begins.
(Bloomberg) -- The first public hearing in the formal impeachment inquiry into President Donald Trump was held Wednesday, as the House Intelligence Committee heard testimony from two State Department officials.
The committee, led by Chairman Adam Schiff, received testimony from William Taylor, the acting U.S. ambassador to Ukraine, and George Kent, deputy assistant secretary of State in the European and Eurasian bureau.
Here are the latest developments:
Instructions Came From Trump, Schiff Says (5:43 p.m.)
Schiff told reporters after the hearing that the newly disclosed phone call between Trump and U.S. diplomat Gordon Sondland is important because it makes “abundantly clear” that the president was involved in pressuring Ukraine to investigate his political rival.
Taylor said his aide overheard the president on July 26 asking Sondland over the phone about “the investigations,” and that Sondland told Trump the Ukrainians were ready to move forward.
“This is honestly very important because there is an effort by the president’s allies to throw Sondland under the bus, to throw Mulvaney under the bus, to throw anybody under the bus to protect the president,” Schiff said. “Instructions are coming from the president on down.”
Trump to Release Summary of Earlier Call (4:34 p.m.)
Trump said he plans to make public, possibly on Thursday, a summary of an April call with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy after a July 25 conversation between the two prompted the House to start its impeachment inquiry.
Trump described his plans on Wednesday at the White House, after the conclusion of the first day of public impeachment hearings by the House Intelligence Committee.
The White House previously released a partial transcript of the July call with Zelenskiy in which Trump asked for an investigation of a political rival, former Vice President Joe Biden, and his son Hunter. That prompted Democrats to accuse the president of holding up Ukrainian military aid as part of a quid pro quo. Trump has repeatedly said the call was “perfect” and has denied wrongdoing. -- Jordan Fabian
Giuliani Sought ‘Political Dirt,’ Kent Says (3:39 p.m.)
Wednesday’s hearing ended after about five and a half hours of testimony.
Near the end, Democratic Representative Val Demings of Florida asked Kent and Taylor if they believe that Rudy Giuliani, on behalf of Trump, sought to get dirt for political ends through his shadow diplomacy in Ukraine.
“I believe he was looking to dig up political dirt against a potential rival in the next election cycle,” Kent said of Giuliani.
“I agree with Mr. Kent,” Taylor said.
Witnesses Say They’re Not ‘Never Trumpers’ (3:30 p.m.)
Taylor and Kent said they’re not “never Trumpers,” as the president has described some witnesses in the impeachment inquiry.
During questioning from Democrat Eric Swalwell of California, Kent said he’s a career official who has served under three Republican presidents and two Democrats.
“Mr. Taylor, are you a never Trumper?” Swalwell said.
“No, sir,” Taylor responded.
Swalwell also asked Taylor whether it’s wrong for the U.S. to delay security aid while seeking politically focused investigations.
“Yes,” Taylor said. “Our holding up security assistance that’s going to a country that’s fighting aggression from Russia, for no good policy reason,” he said, “is wrong.”
Levity About the Person ‘Who Started It All’ (3:26 p.m.)
A rare moment of levity occurred after Republican Jim Jordan complained that the “anonymous” whistle-blower is the one witness Democrats won’t bring in to testify before the committee and the American public. “And that’s the guy who started it all, the whistle-blower,” he said.
Jordan said only Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff knows who the whistle-blower is.
Moments later, Democrat Peter Welch of Vermont responded: “I say to my colleague, I’d be glad to have the person who started it all come in and testify.”
“President Trump is welcome to take a seat right there,” he said, referring to the witness chairs.
GOP Challenges Taylor Knowledge of Events (2:32 p.m.)
Republicans sought to show that Taylor’s statements about the delay in aid to Ukraine were based on second-hand information and incorrect.
“Is it possible some of the things you heard were not true?” asked Mike Turner of Ohio.
“I’m here to tell you what I know,” Taylor responded.
“Since you learned it from others, you could be wrong, correct?” Turner said. “Or they could be wrong, or they could be mistaken.”
“People make mistakes,” Taylor said.
GOP member Jim Jordan of Ohio followed up by saying, “What you heard did not happen.”
“You had a clear understanding that aid will not get released unless there was a commitment” by Ukraine to conduct investigations,” Jordan said. “Those two things didn’t happen, so you had to be wrong.”
”I was not wrong about what I told you,” said Taylor. He said that was what he “heard,” and that was “all I said” in his testimony.
Taylor also responded that even though Ukraine ultimately got the U.S. aid, “we shook the confidence of a close partner in our reliability.”
Later, under questioning by Democrat Jackie Speier of California, Taylor said Ukraine’s president hasn’t had the meeting with Trump that he sought.
Biden, Trump Actions Not the Same, Kent Says (2:03 p.m.)
During questioning, Kent said that Joe Biden’s efforts to get a corrupt Ukrainian prosecutor fired was not the same as what Trump did in pressuring Ukraine to conduct specific investigations of Joe Biden and the 2016 elections.
“I would not say so,” Kent said.
Jordan Says No Aid Link Came Up In Meetings (1:58 p.m.)
GOP Representative Jim Jordan said that during almost two months while the aid to Ukraine was delayed, Taylor met with President Volodymyr Zelenskiy three times and hold was never mentioned. There was “no linkage,” Jordan said.
Jordan questioned how Taylor got what Taylor called a “clear understanding“ that the security funding wouldn’t come without Ukrainian investigations into Joe Biden and the 2016 election, as sought by Trump.
“Three face-to-face meetings, it doesn’t come up,” Jordan said. In addition, he said the U.S. released the funding on Sept. 11 without any announcement of an investigation by Ukraine.
Taylor responded he got the information about the delay in aid from Sondland.
But Jordan said a clarifying addendum that Sondland submitted after his own closed-door testimony showed that Taylor didn’t have first-hand knowledge of that.
“This is what I can’t believe -- and you are their star witness,” said Jordan.
Taylor said, “Let me just say, I don’t consider myself a star witness for anything.”
GOP Outlines Trump’s Suspicions of Ukraine (1:24 p.m.)
Questions from top committee Republican Devin Nunes and GOP staff sought to show that Trump had reason to be suspicious of Ukrainian officials and that the Democrats’ allegations against the president amounted to a disagreement over foreign policy.
A key part of the Republican defense is that Trump had legitimate reasons to seek investigations by Ukraine to pursue U.S. interests and not simply his personal political interests.
GOP staff lawyer Steve Castor suggested there were “elements of the Ukrainian establishment that were out to get the president,” as shown by those officials’ actions favoring Hillary Clinton during the 2016 campaign.
Castor also asked Taylor and Kent whether Joe Biden’s son, Hunter, was qualified to serve on the board of Burisma Holdings. Both said they didn’t have information about his qualifications.
Kent said he reported his concern to Vice President Biden’s office that Hunter Biden’s role in Burisma created the possibility of a “perception of a conflict of interest.”
Embassy Staff Member Invited to Testify (1:05 p.m.)
The committees leading the investigation have invited two additional witnesses to testify behind closed doors. David Holmes, the political counselor in the U.S. embassy in Ukraine, was asked to appear on Friday, according to an official working on the inquiry.
Holmes is the embassy staff member who overheard a July 26 phone conversation between Trump and U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland, according to two officials. Taylor testified Wednesday that Sondland told Holmes after the call that Trump “cares more about the investigations of Biden, which Giuliani was pressing for,” than for Ukraine.
The committees also invited Mark Sandy, the associate director for national security programs at the White House Office of Management and Budget, to appear on Saturday, according to the first official.
Taylor Asserts Sondland ‘Channel’ to Trump (12:14 p.m.)
Taylor was asked about U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland’s communications with the president.
“Did you come to understand Sondland had a direct channel of communication to Trump?” Taylor was asked by Democratic staffer Daniel Goldman.
“I did,” said Taylor.
Taylor ‘Alarmed’ By U.S. Withholding Aid (11:55 a.m.)
Taylor said he was “alarmed” when he realized that the U.S. was withholding military aid from Ukraine, in addition to the promise of a White House meeting, while Trump was pressing that country to investigate Joe Biden’s family.
“It’s one thing to try to leverage a meeting in the White House” to get Ukraine to conduct the probe, Taylor said. “It’s another thing, I thought, to leverage security assistance, security assistance to a country at war” that depended on the aid and on a demonstration of support from the U.S.
“Security assistance was much more alarming,” Taylor said.
Taylor Cites Trump Call for Investigations (11:47 a.m.)
Questioning of the witnesses began with Schiff asking Taylor about the previously undisclosed July 26 phone call.
Taylor said his staff member told him that Trump was speaking loudly enough to be overheard over a cell phone. When Trump referred to “investigations,” that was understood to refer to a Ukrainian probe of the 2016 election and of the company whose board included Joe Biden’s son, Taylor said.
Schiff asked whether the staffer said he was told Trump cares more about the investigations of Biden.
“And Burisma, yes sir,” Taylor said.
“I take it the import of that is he cares more about that than he does about Ukraine,” added Schiff.
“Yes sir,” said Taylor.
Taylor Describes Previously Unknown Call (11:17 a.m.)
Taylor added some new information to his prior testimony that he said he wasn’t aware of when he appeared behind closed doors last month. He described a call that took place one day after Trump spoke with Ukraine’s president.
In the newly disclosed July 26 call, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union Gordon Sondland spoke with Trump at a restaurant in the presence of a member of Taylor’s staff, he said.
The member of Taylor’s staff could hear Trump on the phone, “asking Ambassador Sondland about ‘the investigations,’” Taylor said. “Ambassador Sondland told President Trump that the Ukrainians were ready to move forward.”
“Following the call with President Trump, the member of my staff asked Ambassador Sondland what President Trump thought about Ukraine,” Taylor said. “Ambassador Sondland responded that President Trump cares more about the investigations of Biden, which Giuliani was pressing for.”
“At the time I gave my deposition on Oct. 22, I was not aware of this information. I am including it here for completeness,” Taylor said. He said he was informed about the call last week by the member of his staff.
Taylor Describes ‘Irregular’ Giuliani Role (11:12 a.m.)
Taylor described an “irregular policy channel” toward Ukraine that was being led by Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani.
He described his “astonishment” when he was told in July by a White House budget office official that U.S. aid to Ukraine was being withheld under the orders of the president through the acting White House chief of staff.
“In an instant, I realized that one of the key pillars of our strong support for Ukraine was threatened,” Taylor said. “The irregular policy channel was running contrary to the goals of longstanding U.S. policy.“
Taylor Calls Withholding Ukraine Aid ‘Crazy’ (11:04 a.m.)
Taylor said the U.S. is Ukraine’s “strategic partner” and it is “clearly in our national interest” to deter Russian aggression.
”I wrote that withholding security assistance in exchange for help with a domestic political campaign in the United States would be crazy. I believed that then and I believe it now,” he said. The White House’s decision to withhold the aid over the summer is part of the events under scrutiny.
The U.S. has provided $1.6 billion in military aid since 2014, Taylor said, to help the country rebuild its military since a pro-Russian president had allowed the armed forces to deteriorate. Since then, he said, “the whole Ukrainian nation fiercely responded” to Russian aggression.
Trump Campaign Raising Money From Hearing (10:53 a.m.)
As Kent’s testimony was underway on Wednesday, the Trump campaign began trying to raise money by citing the House impeachment hearings.
“The Impeachment Hearings today are a TOTAL SCAM! Let’s raise $3 MILLION in 24 HRS,” according to a text message from the Trump campaign. -- Mario Parker
Kent Accuses Giuliani of ‘Smear’ Campaign (10:47 a.m.)
Kent told the committee that starting in 2018, he became aware of an effort by Trump’s personal lawyer Rudy Giuliani and his associates to “smear” then-U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch, who later was recalled from her post.
“In mid-August, it became clear to me that Giuliani’s efforts to gin up politically motivated investigations were now infecting U.S. engagement with Ukraine, leveraging President Zelenskiy’s desire for a White House meeting,” Kent said, referring to Ukraine’s leader.
He also said he didn’t witness any U.S. attempts to shield Burisma Holdings, the Ukrainian company whose board included Joe Biden‘s son Hunter, from scrutiny by Ukrainian officials.
Schiff Vows to Shield Whistle-Blower’s Name (10:35 a.m.)
Schiff said the committee “will not permit the outing of the whistle-blower.” He was responding to Republican complaints that they have been blocked from asking some questions during closed-door testimony.
Schiff said it is a “false statement” to say he knows the identity of the whistle-blower.
Nunes Accuses Democrats of Smear Campaign (10:28 a.m.)
The committee’s top Republican, Devin Nunes, accused Democrats of a conducting a “scorched-earth war” against Trump and a “carefully orchestrated media smear campaign.”
”This spectacle is doing great damage to our country. It’s nothing more than an impeachment process in search of a crime,” said Nunes.
Nunes also took aim at career officials who he said undermined the president. “Elements of the civil service have decided that they, not the president, are really in charge,” he said in his prepared statement.
Nunes told Taylor and Kent that by coming to testify, they “agreed, wittingly or unwittingly, to participate in a drama” orchestrated by Democrats.
“By undermining the president who they are supposed to be serving, elements of the FBI, the Department of Justice, and now the State Department, have lost the confidence of millions of Americans who believe that their vote should count for something,” Nunes said. “It will take years, if not decades, to restore faith in these institutions.” -- Billy House and Steven T. Dennis
Schiff Says Probe Is About Abuse of Power (10:14 a.m.)
Schiff said the inquiry is seeking to determine “whether President Trump sought to exploit that ally’s vulnerability and invite Ukraine’s interference in our elections,” and whether Trump sought to condition “official acts” on “Ukraine’s willingness to assist with two political investigations that would help his re-election campaign.”
“And if President Trump did either, whether such an abuse of his power is compatible with the Office of the Presidency,” Schiff said.
He said the answers to those questions will affect not only the future of Trump’s presidency, “but the future of the presidency itself, and what kind of conduct or misconduct the American people may come to expect from their commander-in-chief.” -- Billy House
Republicans Bring Signs to Hearing (10:08 a.m.)
Republicans on the Intelligence Committee prepared several placards for the made-for-TV event. One features a tweet in 2017 from Mark Zaid, one of the attorneys for the whistle-blower whose complaint underpinned the start of the inquiry, which said the “#coup has started” and predicted impeachment.
Another placard has a quote from Texas Representative Al Green: “I’m Concerned If We Don’t Impeach This President, He Will Get Re-Elected.”
An additional sign says: “93 Days Since Adam Schiff Learned The Identity of the Whistle-blower.” -- Billy House
First Public Hearing Begins at House Panel (10:06 a.m.)
Schiff gaveled in the first public hearing that will receive testimony from witnesses in the House impeachment inquiry.
Former Prosecutor to Be in Inquiry Spotlight (8:25 a.m.)
Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff will hand over part of Democrats’ first 45 minutes of questioning to Daniel Goldman, a former federal prosecutor from the U.S. attorney’s office in Manhattan with experience going after Russian organized crime groups.
The committee’s ranking Republican Devin Nunes will share the next 45 minutes of questioning with Steve Castor, general counsel for the GOP on the Oversight and Government Reform Committee for more than 14 years. In that role, Castor investigated matters including Internal Revenue Service targeting of Tea Party groups and the attack on a U.S. diplomatic mission in Benghazi, Libya in 2012.
Goldman, who joined the Intelligence Committee’s staff in March, will be under pressure to use the witness testimony to build the case for impeaching the president. In a tweet before the hearing, Trump questioned the rules set by the panel that allow a lawyer, in addition to committee members, to lead part of the questioning. -- Billy House
Catch Up on Impeachment Coverage
Key Events
- White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney reversed himself and said he won’t go to court in an effort to block a House subpoena to testify. Instead, he said he’ll rely on Trump’s order not to cooperate with the hearings.
- Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch is set to testify Friday. Intelligence Chairman Adam Schiff said he’ll announce more witnesses this week.
- The Gordon Sondland transcript is here and here; former special envoy Kurt Volker’s transcript is here and here. Former U.S. Ambassador to Ukraine Marie Yovanovitch’s transcript is here and here; the transcript of Michael McKinley, former senior adviser to the secretary of state, is here. The transcript of William Taylor, the top U.S. envoy to Ukraine, is here and here. State Department official George Kent’s testimony is here and here. Testimony by Alexander Vindman can be found here, and the Fiona Hill transcript is here. Laura Cooper’s transcript is here; Christopher Anderson’s is here and Catherine Croft’s is here.
--With assistance from Mario Parker and Steven T. Dennis.
To contact the reporters on this story: Billy House in Washington at bhouse5@bloomberg.net;Erik Wasson in Washington at ewasson@bloomberg.net
To contact the editors responsible for this story: Joe Sobczyk at jsobczyk@bloomberg.net, Laurie Asséo, Anna Edgerton
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